Live chat with Craig Simpson, ATU

TransitBy Michael Perkins (Contributor) August 12, 2009

Welcome to our live chat with Craig Simpson of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 689.

Greater Greater Washington live chat: Craig Simpson, ATU Local 689(08/12/2009)
12:51 GreaterGreaterWashington: Welcome to our live chat with Craig Simpson of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 689, which represents most of Metro’s workers.

12:51 Michael Perkins: Mike Perkins here, in beautiful SE near Eastern Market
12:51 GreaterGreaterWashington: We’ll be starting around 1 pm. In the meantime, feel free to settle in and enter your questions in the chat window.
12:59 Michael Perkins: Ok, we’re ready to start. Craig, thanks for joining us.
12:59 Craig Simpson: Hey Michael: Glad to be on. I’m here at ATU 689 hq in Forestville, MD. I started with WMATA in 1974 as a bus operator, got involved with the union and became a full time union representative in 1989 and left December 31, 2000. I’ve since worked for the Metro Washington Council AFL-CIO twice and for Progressive Maryland. I’ve been back with ATU Local 689 since February of this year as the legislative & political representative.
1:00 Michael Perkins: Thanks. So let’s start off with issues of wages and benefits.
1:00 Craig Simpson: What do you want to know specifically? I’ll try to answer as best I can.
1:00 Michael Perkins: There are some people that might think Metro’s wages and benefits are too rich. About how much does your average bus operator or train operator take home?

1:01 Michael Perkins: What are the vacations like, the health care, retirement, etc?
1:02 Craig Simpson: The starting wage is around $16.50 and the top wage is around $26.00 for an operator. There are some additional longevity payments that increase with years of service so that a 30 year operator might make around $28.00. That puts WMATA about 10-11 out of the top 20. Locally Ride On operators make more, others make less
1:03 Michael Perkins: How are the hours? Do most operators work a lot of overtime?
1:03 Craig Simpson: No, most don’t. There are two types of overtime — scheduled and unsecheduled. Schedulers can’t cut runs into nice 8 hr chunks so there is built in overtime. Unscheduled can be more controlled by WMATA forecasting and filling vacancies — they have done better the last couple years.
1:04 Michael Perkins: Paid vacations?

1:05 Craig Simpson: Paid vacations would be 1 wek after 1 yr, 2 wks after 2, 3 after 5, 4 after 10, 5 after 15, 6 after 30.
1:05 Michael Perkins: You mentioned recently that workers were asked to contribute more towards health care. What’s the care like and what’s the worker’s share?
1:06 Craig Simpson: The health care package is decent and includes a dental benefit. The increased costs each year are shared 25% employee and 75% WMATA. The current split depends on whether you take HMO or PPO. PPO share is higher.
1:07 Michael Perkins: And last, what’s the retirement like? Pension only or is there some sort of 401(k)? Does the employee have to contribute?
1:08 Craig Simpson: The pension is the main benefit. Employees took a wage freeze in 1983 to make the plan non-contributory for employees. The plan was in excellent shape when I left and WMATA was not required to make contributions from 1999 through 2006. There is a voluntary 457 plan that employees can defer their own earnings but no company match.
1:09 Michael Perkins: And I guess other than pay and benefits, another aspect of working is the work environment. How do metro employees get along with each other and management? Are the processes seen as fair, etc.?
1:10 Michael Perkins: Are the workers generally able to get the time off that they want, are they treated fairly when they’re at work? Is there a sense that high performers are rewarded or at least recognized?
1:10 Craig Simpson: I think there was pretty good labor relations for a long time. There were no arbitrated contracts from 1980 up until the last one four years ago. Now we’re in arbitration for a 2nd consecutive contract. There is a morale problem between management and workers who feel they are blamed for everything.
1:11 Michael Perkins: So what’s the worker’s side of the issue?

1:11 Craig Simpson: No, the nature of the business makes it difficult to get personal time off. Vacations (including single days) are scheduled months in advance. Management will work with employees at times to change them but there’s no guarantee.
1:12 Craig Simpson: Let’s talk about safety briefly. Workers feel like management constantly points the finger at them as being at fault. The book will say one thing but the push is on to get the work done, or get the train or bus out on time.
1:13 Michael Perkins: So the workers feel pressure to cut corners or not follow the book?
1:13 Craig Simpson: That’s a fact. The culture needs to change and there needs to be a more cooperative relationship between management and union on safety issues. Safety needs to come first — not just in words but in deeds.
1:14 Michael Perkins: Speaking of safety, here’s a question from a reader …

1:14 [Comment from Gavin Baker]

What would the union like to see done to improve safety and prevent employee deaths and injuries, like the worker recently killed during track work and the operator of the June 22 train?

1:16 Craig Simpson: Hey Gavin! I think they did some joint MTA/TWU work in NY on track safety that was good. We need redundancy on the ATP system. The operator will stop a train many times but line of sight becomes an issue during failures. Track safety equipment is available that provides warnings to wayside workers and operators. WMATA has not done much in this regard.
1:16 Michael Perkins: And here’s another question from Amy …
1:16 [Comment from Amy in Silver Spring]

I’ve heard about an increasing number of assaults on transit drivers. I think DC and MD have tried to respond. What can we do to protect drivers from assaults from violent passengers?

1:18 Craig Simpson: Hi Amy. Assaults on operators have risen dramatically in recent years. There are a number of things we’ve tried from plexiglas shields, eliminating paper transfers, cameras on buses, increased police patrol. Another avenue we’re pursuing is increased penalties for assaults. We were successfull (working jointly with WMATA and others) in changing Maryland law to further protect operators and passengers.
1:18 Michael Perkins: And here’s one from Steve Harris …

1:19 [Comment from Steve Harris]

I’m a Transit Worker. When is WMATA going to “promply implement” the NTSB’s January 23rd, 2008 counsel’s advise. It could have saved the recent and past workers life.

1:20 Michael Perkins: The advice was to implement systems that alert train operators and track workers when they are coming into proximity, as far as I can tell.

1:20 Craig Simpson: Steve: You’re right. Both personal warning equipment for track workers and installation in the cab and wayside of warning systems would help save lives. WMATA participated in a joint study of the issue but has lagged in implementing this. I am in favor of utilizing this equipment but we must also make sure we have the proper procedures in place for calling down power, flagmen and other wayside procedures. We can’t rely on any one thing for safety.
1:20 Michael Perkins: http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2008/080123.html
1:21 Michael Perkins: That brings us to the money issue: running WMATA is expensive, and riders can only be asked to pay so much.

1:22 Michael Perkins: Operating buses and trains “by the book” can be more expensive.
1:22 Michael Perkins: Here’s a reader asking how we can advocate:
1:22 [Comment from Tom in Silver Spring]

Despite the fact that it is the second-busiest subway system in the country, Metro lacks dedicated operating funds from the jurisdictions it serves. Instead, unlike every other large city system, it has to go hat in hand to MD, VA, DC, and VA localities each year for operating funds. What can we do to win dedicated operating funds for Metro?

1:24 Craig Simpson: Hey Tom: I think the recent effort to secure $150 million per year from the feds with matching local funds for capital is a step in the right direction. I welcome federal participation on the WMATA board as a step toward preserving WMATA’s regional character. We need to continue to advocate for a steady stream of operating funds from the jurisdictions and for the federal government to step up its role.

The other area we’re forgetting is the tremendous value that WMATA has contributed to in this region. While business have in some areas contributed to building new transit — there has been no re-capture of value added to help fund operating costs.

1:25 Michael Perkins: So back to Metro’s employees. What do you have to have to get a job as a bus operator or train operator? What are the qualifications?

1:27 Craig Simpson: WMATA actually sets the qualifications, the union accepts employees WMATA hires as members. The way I understand it, you must be 21, have a clean driving record, have no felony convictions in recent years and test drug free. Bus operators undergo a 4-6 week training period (prior to entering the bargaining unit) and then a 90 day probationary period during which they can be discharged without grievance by the union.
1:27 Michael Perkins: And can you be hired directly as a rail operator?

1:27 Michael Perkins: What if you have experience in another system?

1:28 Craig Simpson: The union has no rule against it, but there are internal bidding rights where current employees get first crack. I suppose if there were never in-house employees applying, WMATA would hire from the street.
1:29 Michael Perkins: And there’s a rumor that bus operators must start out part-time. What’s the real story, is this true?
1:30 Craig Simpson: That was once largely the case. Part-time has been a big problem in the transit industry — managements thought they could save money. At WMATA, a lower starting wage rate was bargained while starting operators part time. This resulted in a difficulty recruiting workers. When Catoe arrived, to his credit, he ended the practice of requiring operators to be hired as part-time first.
1:31 Michael Perkins: I would like to know whether Metro is hiring, whether they have to turn a lot of qualified applicants away or they’re desperate for workers?
1:32 Craig Simpson: WMATA has been largely in a hiring freeze for some months now as a result of budget pressures. I was told by one senior manager that they will be hiring bus operators soon if they have not begun already. In today’s economic climate, I don’t expect there will be a difficulty in filling jobs.
1:33 Michael Perkins: There’s a perception among a lot of riders that some Metro employees are rude, incompetent, lazy or worse. What can the union do to help encourage these workers to do a better job?

1:36 Craig Simpson: I ride the system regularly. I encounter some great employees who go above and beyond to help customers. I also encounter some that are in the opposite direction and a great many more in the middle. This is true in any organization and which end leads is the question — the middle will follow. Our best employees are frustrated by the behavior of middle and first line management. When a supervisor arrives at a kiosk and spreads out their barbeque and starts eating, it sets the tone. When a customer requests a supervisor to resolve a complaint and the supervisor is hostile to the customer, it sets a tone. If a middle manager wants to sell employees clothes and other items, it’s perceived that you must buy or you’ll be disciplined and that sets a tone. To deal with the bad you have to start by setting an example from the top.
1:37 Michael Perkins: So you’re saying the problem is mostly among Metro’s non-union employees? That seems somewhat unlikely
1:37 Michael Perkins: I mean, sure there are going to be problems in both!
1:38 Craig Simpson: No, what I’m saying is that workers will follow the lead of their supervisors. I’m not defending bad behavior, but I’m trying to point out how an organization can change a culture.
1:39 Michael Perkins: What about Metro? What options does Metro have to help encourage workers to do a better job?
1:39 Michael Perkins: When a customer files a complaint against a rude bus driver, for example, what happens?

1:40 Craig Simpson: The complaint will be sent to the employee’s supervisor to identify and interview the employee. If the employee has any evidence, the supervisor is supposed to consider that. The management then decides on whether to discipline and what discipline to impose. The disposition should be sent back to customer service.
1:41 Michael Perkins: So recently a train operator was filmed sending text messages on a blackberry, so Metro changed the policy concerning electronic devices.
1:41 Michael Perkins: Then a little while later there were photos of a bus operator speaking on a cell phone, and then one reading a book or sleeping or something like that.

1:42 Michael Perkins: Why can’t there just be a rule that when you’re operating a vehicle you’re going to put the distractions away?
1:42 [Comment from silverspringtrails]

Regarding punishing bus operators who are reported as using cell phones on the job, Maryland Politics Watch has an interesting story at Is WMATA management starting to crack?. I can’t verify that the story is accurate, but it certainly makes a strong case for why due process and a complete investigation is needed before we jump to conclusions and fire bus operators.

1:42 Michael Perkins: ah, here’s the reader that wrote in about the other side of that issue.
1:44 Craig Simpson: Let me make it clear, the union opposes texting or using cell phones while operating. If you check our youtube site, you’ll see we posted videos against the practice. In any case, each allegation needs to be investigated to determine as best possible, what the truth is. It may be that the operator photographed with a cell phone was not violating policy. Those that are will be disciplined and if the employee feels they are being treated unfairly, they will file a grievance with their union.
1:44 Michael Perkins: And I assume reading books and sleeping are included in that?
1:44 Michael Perkins: I mean, it was kind of odd to have to go through that three times just because reading and sleeping were not included in the original policy.
1:45 Craig Simpson: I don’t know if there is a specific rule against reading books while driving but there are certainly general rules that apply. Sleeping on the job has always been an offense.
1:45 Michael Perkins: Ok. There’s a question about pension practices.
1:45 [Comment from reid]

2) What have they done to address to overtime binging that near-retirees are notorious for taking in order to maximize their pension. Do the rules (discussed above) encourage an artificial scarcity of drivers that enables the overtime binge?

1:46 Michael Perkins: I think the question refers to the idea that the pension factors in all pay including overtime?
1:47 Craig Simpson: Reid: I looked at this to see if what you described really happens. I looked at the bargaining unit employees who worked the most overtime and found it to be distributed accross the seniority spectrum — sure some older workers got some but so did alot of younger workers. The way unscheduled OT works is that you sign a monthly list and you agree to work any and all overtime for that month. The list is rotated with the senior person getting the first work and then the next junior, etc. Alot of senior employees don’t sign because they don’t want to be obligated to work at any time.
1:48 Michael Perkins: Does the pension benefit get calculated that way though?
1:50 Craig Simpson: The pension benefit is calculated on earnings which include all time worked. The average of employees highest 4 years are taken and that along with a multiplier and years of service determine the benefit. The theory is that pension is based on a percentage of earnings. An average worker with 30 years of service retiring could expect a pension of about 50% of earnings.
1:50 [Comment from greg]

I heard that most of Metro’s budget increases last year were due to wage growth and more expensive paratransit (MetroAccess). Is that right? Are those the drivers of Metro’s budget problems? If so, what can we do about them?

1:51 Michael Perkins: You mentioned that a large part of the wage growth issue was needing to have more bus operators due to congested streets.
1:53 Craig Simpson: Hey Greg. WMATA budget increases were not due to wage growth last year. If we look back to 1946 to present, the wage rate has actually declined relative to inflation. The main factor driving bus costs is congrestion. To maintain headways because of longer times it takes a bus to get from one end of the line to another, an additional bus (with all the attendant costs) has to be added. On rail, the addition of eight car trains means additional maintenance expense. These mean you need more employees (wages) and more fuel, etc. but the driving factor has not been wage rate increases.
1:53 Michael Perkins: I looked into it and while I don’t have my figures handy, I found that for 2007 to 2008, wages and fringe benefit compensation for bus grew faster than bus hours operated. So at least there is some wage growth going on that’s contributing to higher costs.
1:53 Michael Perkins: Hmm. . I’m going to look into this more. Are the operators of Metroaccess union or contracted?
1:54 Craig Simpson: I’m not sure exactly what that represents but it could be the move from part-time to full time that Catoe did. That would increase health insurance and wage costs but be offset by turnover/training costs and accident rates. You really have to look at all this stuff together.
1:54 Michael Perkins: Here’s an interesting issue, do we really need station managers?
1:54 [Comment from metronic]

I wonder what the ATU thinks of eliminating “station managers” altogether and either going to unstaffed stations or simply having non-management staff work the booths. There is simply no need for a management employee to sit in a glass booth and, if the mood strikes them, give directions to tourists or deal with the occasional fare card issue.

1:55 Craig Simpson: Metroaccess is contracted out and is one of the fastest growing cost areas as more people use it. We have to find the ways to encourage disabled to use the fixed route system which is more cost effective (average cost per trip for Metroaccess is nearly $40 per person).
1:57 Craig Simpson: Ha! I guess I’ve got to do full disclosure here. My wife is a station manager on the Red Line and I guess I’d be hard pressed to advocate her being out of a job. I would urge metronic to go to Shady Grove on a weekday morning and see if it would be a good idea to go unstaffed or whether employees just sit in a booth and when the mood strikes them help tourists.
1:57 [Comment from Tom]

I’ve heard from friends who work at Metro that there is a sort of “brotherhood.” That supervisors promote their friends and family to key positions, but neglect those that may be more qualified for some positions. What is your response? Does Metro need to clean out the old management system?

1:58 Michael Perkins: This is a tough one. How do workers get selected for promotions? Is it seen as a fair process?
2:00 Craig Simpson: I think that part of the problem I described earlier is a tendency for management to choose those that they know and like. There are some objective criteria that you must meet for promotion but the actual selection process (like everywhere) is more subjective. I know some excellent supervisors and I know some extemely poor ones who are only looking for a “position.” As I indicated earlier, WMATA must find a way to get their better supervisors to lead the middle group — the poor ones will fall in line or be forced out.
2:00 Michael Perkins: Oh, and what’s the highest level Metro worker that’s still a member of the union? Street supervisor? Station Manager?
2:01 Craig Simpson: A think a senior compiler in the planning department may make the most although an elevator/escalator technician may have passed them.
2:01 Michael Perkins: But most people you encounter day-to-day are members of one of the unions?

2:02 Craig Simpson: Yes, ATU 689 represents train operators, bus operators, station managers, bus and rail mechanics, track maintenance, some clerical workers and I’m probably forgeting someone. The police are represented by a different union and the Landover garage is represented by the Teamsters. OPEIU 2 represents a professional and technical unit.
2:03 Michael Perkins: Well, we’re out of time so I would like to say thanks for chatting.
2:03 Michael Perkins: It’s been informative.
2:03 Craig Simpson: Thanks for having me, it’s been fun.
2:04 GreaterGreaterWashington: Thanks everyone for participating in today’s chat.
2:04 GreaterGreaterWashington: In two weeks, we’ll be hosting Ron Carlee, the outgoing Arlington County Manager, for a chat about his time running Arlington and the future of that county.
2:04 GreaterGreaterWashington: Feel free to continue the discussion about Metro labor in the comments.
2:04